Special Meeting
8-31-09
EC - Elsie Carter,
JK - Jean Knight
TG - Tom Goldsmith
KW - Kevin Woosley
RR - Rick Rash
JT - Jason Taylor
TC - Tom Cox
MW - Melanie Woosley
JD - Joe Davenport
WN - Wally Nay
LH - Linda Hall
Meeting was called to order
Pledge of Allegiance
(EC) We are here tonight to discuss Resolution 8-2009, a resolution for safety gates at Second Street. No one wants to close Second Street; we do want to keep our quiet zone. Council has e-mails from Cliff Staten and Ben Biesterveld. There are no guarantees but this is the choice we have. If we don’t succeed to get the gates, we drop the barriers and use our gates on Walnut, and keep the quiet zone. I think we need to have a motion to go into public hearing and let's hear from the people before we have City Council discussion among themselves on this serious matter.
So if I might have the motion to go into public hearing
JK - so moved
TG - second
(EC) All in favor I (all), any opposed (none) thank you. We will now go into public hearing where by you all will be asked to stand and state your name and give us your public comments. Please. Yes Sir
Kevin Woosley - this public hearing wasn’t even advertised, so how can you legally have a public hearing tonight
(EC) Public comment
(KW) Yea but yall went into public hearing there is a difference between public hearing and public comment. Public comment is just allowing people to speak, and you don’t have to go out of regular session for that. Public hearing you have to advertise in the paper for between 7 and 14 days...inaudible…
(EC) Thank you so much
(JT) Inaudible...it's not an ordinance either so I guess we just need to go out of public hearing and open public comment.
(EC) I think that’s good, that’s what I had written down but I decided that we might should do it more formal but uh, we will go out of public hearing
(JT) Out of public hearing (DP), second (EC) it has been moved and seconded very good and thank you
(EC) Since I have been corrected, we will now have public comment from the audience
Tom Cox asked for copies of e-mails that were given to the Council members
(EC) We have copies here if you need to see them. (JK) was not sure if copies of emails were there.
(EC) If you would sit down please and if you would like to make a comment, you may stand and state your name.
(RR) My name is Rick Rash If you wanna know I live in Orchard Grass Hills…inaudible…I guess we are the reason we are meeting today. I called...inaudible...and we got some concessions from CSX I had a talk with David Hall...inaudible and explained that Second Street is very important to the people of Oldham County. That over 2200 people crosses there a day, including me when I am up here. And, um, I would do any thing that I could to protect Second Street. Down to calling the Chairman of the Board of CSX, again and the minority leader of the United States Senate. I have talked to our Congressman and the long and short of it is the equation has changed since you all passed your last resolution. And basically, there was a meeting, I wasn’t invited to the meeting but CSX indicated that they are willing to do what they could to expedite this. It's my understanding that they got the First Street gates in 3 months. Now you all have two options that aren’t real great, but when you are faced with two bad choices you generally try to pick the one that is least bad. And in this case taking CSX at their words if they are willing to expedite this, to the best of their abilities, and the cost will be somewhere around $200,000.00 with an 18 to 24 month…inaudible…..and knowing that it takes a private contractor about 4 months, we figured that CSX ought to be able to do this in the what is that 8 or 9 months til the first of June? (Several respond 9 months) I think this resolution involves a traffic study, an engineering study (WH) Engineering brief. That would involve a private contractor, which there are Oldham County connections for that. In which we can probably expedite the engineering study. Then David Hall and what’s the gentleman’s name Cliff Staten and Bryan Glover have agreed to expedite. Now in Kentucky I knew David’s predecessor his name was….The government affairs person for the state is generally the Godfather for CSX in that state. Staten is his boss. I take them at their word that they can get this expedited. And if you believe that then you will want to approve this because that way we can keep Second Street open. We won't have to block it off so the fire engines don’t have to go all around the block to come out, we won't have to block it off to put an extra 2200 people on First Street that is already over crowded. If you believe this…inaudible...this is a good thing to do. Worse case scenario is that it doesn’t get in and the last week in May, you put up the barriers and close Second Street. But you have 8 months and 3 weeks to beat that. And I would like to encourage this council to do so. I will add that the reason, I had a lengthy discussion with the Chairman of your transportation Committee last night and she has real...unadible...I wasn’t sure that you had time to talk with...comments from MW... (Yes I talked with)...That’s the reason you all got e-mails we arranged for you all to get these e-mails from CSX so you would be comfortable with what your options were. I appreciate your time.
(EC) Thank you
(EC) Any one else like to make public comment...
My name is Steve Greenwell, Magistrate for the fourth district and Second Street is in my district. Madame Mayor and ladies and gentlemen of the Council, I would just urge you all to do what ever it takes, move heaven and earth whatever we are already 8 months into the year. I know you all have seen a lot of things come across your desk in attendance but I doubt you have seen anything more important than this. So I would urge cooperation and hard work and keep the intersection open.
(EC) Thank you sir anyone else please
Bill Tucker, I would like to encourage the passage of it. I am a member of Dehaven Baptist Church and chairman of the trustees there. And the parking lot that we use there holds 60 cars and we fill that every Sunday plus we line the Main Street on both sides, so we look at 80 to 100 cars that we have there. And it is easy access for us going out because at noontime several of the churches dismiss at the same time and 53 really gets backed up. So also during the week, I come through there just about every day to stay off 53 as Magistrate Rash mentioned a few minutes ago. I would like to encourage the passage of this.
(EC) Thank you sir would someone else like to make public comment. Yes maam,
my name is Donna Head, I live on Jane Street, and I travel Second Street every day to work to and from. I just can't imagine having to go another route around to get around on 4th or whatever even 53 traffic is unreal as it is and it would just put that much more lives in danger to go that way. And as far as the trains horn I have lived where I live for 40 years and the blowing of the horn has not bothered me in the least ever...inaudible…as far as the quiet zone so be it but the horns don’t bother us. Inaudible.
(EC) Thank you does someone else want to speak
Kevin Woosley, 1016 Shoreline Drive, I think I am one of the handful here that actually live in the City of LaGrange. I had the pleasure of being on city council in 2003 when we were notified by the FRA and CSX that we had to make improvements in order to keep our quiet zone. Here it is 2009 six years later and we are still questioning do we want to keep our quiet zone or not? In 2004/2005, there was a committee put together to look into this. They paid out $40,000 study that you see hanging here on the wall, part of that study we actually gave up out right to a quiet zone for a week just to see how it was going to go to blow the whistle. I think it lasted about 3 or 4 days before the chairman then had to call CSX and say we have had enough stop blowing of the whistle. You are shaking your head but it was 3 or 4 days they had to call and say please stop blowing this whistle because we can’t take it any more. You guys are not just affecting travel on Second Street and I don’t want Second Street closed. I don’t want you to get me wrong but this quiet zone is much more important than people driving up and down Second Street. You are looking at property values, people's health, and welfare and that’s one of your charges for being elected to city council is to maintain the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens of LaGrange. And there is nothing more important than being able to sit in your living room and not being interrupted 32 times a day cause the train whistle blows through the entire length of LaGrange. I would urge you not to support this, stay on track with where you are at with the quiet zone and November shut that intersection down, and do everything you can to keep this quiet zone so we can enjoy the peace and tranquility here in LaGrange the way it is now.
(EC) Anyone else like to make public comment. Yes sir.
(TC) Mr. Woosley talked about not being in favor of but I'm in favor of. And I think that’s what we have to remember. If we are doing away with the previous resolution, to adopt this that’s a mistake if this is an addendum to the previous resolution ok Because I don’t know if you were at the last meeting. You were not there. We can be doing what ever we want and on June 3rd we can put the gate in. I don’t know if you were aware of that but we can close the road on June 3rd and be fine. I think we have to try to put the gates in. And supplant what is already there, but we can close and have plenty of time to do this.
(MW) It can't be June 3rd it has to be before June 3rd
(TC) June 2nd
(MW) No
(TC) Tom Drake sat right down there and told us.
(MW) Listen to me the letter has to be written and received and has to be noted by the 3rd of June. We can’t write the letter until the changes are made. So we can’t write the letter saying we are going to do this
(TC) It doesn’t have to be the permanent closing equipment it can be a temporary set of gates that permanently close it. We can throw up a set highway barriers and block it on June 1st. That is exactly what we can do. I think Mr. Rash deserves an excellent round of
applause and as many pats on the back that we can give this man for giving us the chance to have both options. I am absolutely in favor of keeping the quiet zone at all cost. At all, cost. If we don’t try to keep Second Street open and put these gates in while we have the chance for it. I don’t want any hanky panky we have farted around here long enough. But I don’t see any reason why we can't make this change.
(EC) Thank you so much any one else like to make public comment? Yes maam.
Mary Ann Smith...I live near the intersection of Kentucky and 146 and even now, Yeager is getting really backed up with the school busses and everything. I want...if this is viable and we can at least try this. We need to do that I don’t think Mr. Drake understands how much traffic and school busses are going that way now because with Kentucky being closed at its intersection at Main...inaudible… even when its not rush hour at 3 in the afternoon its gonna be backed up down the street. So what ever you can do.
(EC) Thank you so much any other public comment If not we will proceed to council discussion.
(JT) Can we close the door, it’s really loud
(EC) If there is no discussion then...
(JK) Oh there is there is plenty of it.
(MW) Oh yes there is I thought you were going to talk more about your discussion with them last week.
(EC) They met with us last week, they came in town, and I had expected to have a meeting with 20 or 30 people. They actually told me that they where coming in and would be here at 8:30 and I said asked if I could at least have my chairperson here no they said they just wanted to talk with me. I said this is going to look bad I don’t want to. I said I have 20 people lined up and he said he was just passing through and will come back for a public meeting if we need it. And I said let me just ask my chairman and they said we would rather meet with just you. I don’t know why but that’s just what they said. And so that’s why I had e-mailed to him to reiterate what he told us that night. And he did a very good job of it he promised us nothing but he said they would do everything in their power to expedite this and get it through. But they could not control hurricanes in the south such as when they had New Orleans, if they were all called out then it would not happen. We did get the quote on the gates, which is less than we thought. We got a quote from someone else and it was going to be $250,000 and we believe they can do this for a $190.000. I do have a grant application here in my pile for $50,000 to help pay for the gates.
(MW) Application?
(EC) Application and it takes 6 weeks to get it. And I don’t tell you that it is a guarantee but if not than I will put up the money. But I do believe that if we do this we can use the gates if the worse thing happened in the world and we couldn’t get them in time to get our letter in we could drop those barriers and use the gates on Walnut. Because our risk threshold will continue to drop the national risk threshold will continue to drop and we will continually be made to do other things to our quiet zone until every street is gated or closed and if you read the FRA rule that is what it says. You have to put SSM as we did First Street, close crossings or gate your streets to drop your risk threshold to keep it below the national risk threshold so they won't blow the horns.
(GW) If I could explain something to everyone, because I think there is a missing link here. I guess based on the meeting that you had and then that I received an e-mail that was addressed to Wade and myself, cause we were the contact that CSX knew. And they provided to us a draft preliminary engineering agreement which it required that it be filled out an application was basically made and then that a reimbursable deposit for $10,000 be remitted with that and further more as part of that package that we sent back to them, they required a resolution from City Council indicating that the Mayor has the right to enter into this agreement on behalf of the City of LaGrange. So therefore, we wrote up this resolution in the way that it is so that CSX knew that the city was standing behind the Mayor entering into this agreement. It is not unlike the resolution that had to be signed off on for the FEMA money when Ike went through; very similar procedure. The critical issue for this and a meeting being held however is the fact that there is the requiring of the $10,000 to be sent along. And therefore our recommendation that a public meeting be held and held as quickly as possible so that the application can be gotten in as soon as possible and no time lost. So last Thursday we received an e-mail and a meeting is called for the following Monday. Just one more thing we were originally told it is to my understanding that the amount was going to be $25,000 so part of the primary discussion with Ben B. that’s what the city has been told and I don’t know why or how but the preliminary deposit was dropped to $10,000 from $25,000. The numbers have shifted down to the good.
(EC) we have an economic line in the budget that we can use for that and I think it might be a wise choice to use it for that. But it is up to you all
(JK) I would personally like to hear what Melanie has to say she has worked for hours and hours and I would like to know what she has to say
(MW) First of all, I would like to ask Mr. Rash if you had to choose the quiet zone and Second, what would you choose. Just give me a quiet or Second, that’s all you have to do I don’t want to hear all the rest.
(RR) First, you don’t have to choose you can have your cake and eat it too.
(MW) Ok than next person Steve Greenwell if you had to choose and it was the only choice
(SG) I think you can have both
(MW) Ok Bill Tucker
(BT) Inaudible
(MW) Ok Donna Head
(DH) Both
(MW) Ok, Kevin W.
(KW) Don’t think you can have both
(MW) You can't
(KW) CSX has already told you that they can't guarantee a drop-dead time limit. They cant say yes you give us this $10,000 and we will get this engineering done we will have the telemetry put in and we will have your gates installed and we will all hold hands around a camp fire and sing kum ba ya. They can't guarantee that. We are going to risk loosing our quiet zone while we are out here trying to get these gates in
(TC)I do not see how that works I totally agree with the Mayor and Mr. Rash. We can...I had Mr. Drake sit down, I have it on recorder. I had a recorder in my pocket I have him perfectly clear that on June the 1st or 2nd whatever day we can put in the temporary barriers that permanently close Second Street. And then we can send the letter and then we can come back in the next month and put in the permanent barriers. That was the question that was asked to him, folks if you are considering not taking the best of both worlds please reconsider we still have the drop dead date of June 2nd if all hell breaks loose and we don’t get it dropped in we drop it in and keep our quiet zone. I don’t disagree with anything that anybody is saying.
(MW) So nobody except one person is willing to answer if you had no choice what so ever and it came to June 2nd would you say heck with the Second Street and keep the quiet zone or would you say heck with the quiet zone and keep Second Street? And on June 2nd and we still weren’t done what would you say.
(TC) Every one in here is saying the quiet zone. We are all saying quiet zone.
(MW) Exactly so here is my point and you guys please a lot of people are coming in here and they have their minds made up that people are throwing in the towel and not giving it enough effort and that is simply not true. The thing is just hear me out. We have had multiple conversations. I wasn’t even aware that you guys were going to meet last week
…..tape ending….
(MW) Calculators and number of cars going over Second Street; I am not too sure you want to open your mouth too big and wide about the increase of cars on Second Street going over the crossing at this point. Because if you want to report that to the FRA and CSX and they want to run their calculator with these huge numbers, we are going to need more than gates. That is going to put us way over the threshold. People are doing a little more damage than they realize by going around talking about how many cars we have going over Second Street And if we truly have that many cars going over the crossing at Second Street then there is a bigger risk for the cars for vehicles vs. train accidents and nobody can deny that. Thirdly we have rumors going around that we care closing the whole Second Street nobody will be able to get to the courthouse, no one will be able to get to the square. It is not true the closer is to include from the railroad south. The fire department and the skate park it has nothing to do with the other side it has nothing to do with north Second at all that’s a misconception that’s floating around. As far as a grant application goes, I commend people for trying to get grants but that has failed us in the past. And we have gotten nowhere and we have lost time. So I'm not sure how that is going to help at this point saying that we might be able to get $50,000. It's an application and we don’t know what the answer is going to be. I am getting phone calls from people saying that you are painting and that’s hopeful and positive and that they are going to work with us on this and that we have a high chance. High chance never came out of Cliff S. or Brian G. mouth from what they say to me today. They say the outlook is still bleak. Both of them say that, and both of them say that and they say they made that perfectly clear to you on Wednesday of last week. They will try to help us but they can't give us any extra favors that they would give to any city or town that had the same problem. They cannot expedite train horn issues over safety issues. If we have tracks that need to be repaired or other safety issues or whatever those are going to trump our quiet zone. Not only if we were to decide to go ahead with this, I don’t recommend this at all; if we want to keep the quiet zone. If we want to keep Second Street and do away with the quiet zone then have at it. That is not the consensus that I have gotten from the towns people. I believe that Mrs. Head is the only one besides the Mayor that has ever told me that the train horn doesn't bother them. I have not had other people tell me that. I have had other people tell me please save the quiet zone, we can't loose it please do whatever you can. That’s why we have tried to look at all these other options. The thing is that if we want to keep the quiet zone this resolution is not an option at this point. It's not an option that people should be presenting, as a positive possible thing to do that will bring forth results to keep the quiet zone. Brian G. and Cliff S. both invited me to call them right here during the meeting if there were any questions. So you know my problem is I am getting phone calls from everywhere saying that you all are giving up and they are saying that we can do this and they will work with us. Yes, they will work with us but they can't guarantee us a date and they can't guarantee us anything. They themselves when I said I’m sorry I had the impression that this outlook was truly bleak, Cliff S. said that is the best way I have heard it put yet it is bleak. So lets get the facts straight before we go making decisions, pointing fingers, using taxpayer money for something that will probably not come through anyway. You can't just say, ok we were not able to use these on Second lets just move them down to Walnut. It doesn’t work that way and I was reassured of that today. When Cliff and Brian both told me that you would have to have an entire different engineering study done for Walnut. So it's not like you can take and shift it. You can use the equipment but you can’t just shift it. So it would have to be done again and paid for again. So we run the risk of fronting all this money, still not saving our quiet zone and here we are. So I’m just not sure that is a good idea to put up taxpayer money like that on a chance. And its not a good chance that we will win it is a bleak chance that we will win. If it would help clarify, I would suggest getting Mr. Staton and Mr. Glover so that they can answer everyone’s questions like Mr. Drake has too. But, this is the way it is I don’t want to close Second Street either I use it almost every day. It's my favorite short cut and things but do we or do we not want to do what every body has been asking us to do is my point. Everyone has been saying please don’t let that quiet zone fall thru, please don’t let that quiet zone fall thru, it's gonna ruin everything. You two are the only ones I have heard other wise from. And if any body else has the same opinions they have not come to any of our meetings or they have not come to me. So that is their problem. Did you want to ask a question?
Mrs. Head. When I built my house 40 years ago the train ran right through Main Street. I knew that track was there and I knew the horn blew. The people that move from other locations closer to LaGrange on the outskirts they too knew that track was there and that the train blows their whistle... Inaudible…
(MW) They knew it was there but how long have we had our quiet zone? You got people that have not been here all there lives they have bought homes and businesses and things based on the fact that they know there might be a train here but there is a quiet zone here. I appreciate that input but
(JK) May I address Donna? Donna and I live on the same street and I think the reason we don’t notice it much because we are down in the valley part. The horn does not bother me at all. We are talking more about the people that are close to the track. Cause its going to blow all the way through town.
(EC) No, it's 2 long and 1 short at any crossing that’s not gated
(MW) No, it depends on whom you ask I have heard different opinions from different people with the FRA and CSX. So it does depend who you ask.
(JK) From that Cliff S., today it states right here very plainly that normal time frame is 18 to 24 months from start to finish 18 to 24 months.
(RR) Melanie was talking about the facts if the courthouse catches on fire it is going to take 3 times as long for that fire truck to get to there, as it will if Second Street is open.
(MW) Talking with the fire department, they rarely ever turn right. But there would be instances the church, the courthouse, Theiss. You know things like that. When are they moving?
2 years
These are all good things we have to consider Tad has had his hand up for a while
(TH) Mayor you said something a minute ago, that I'm not clear on. You said that any section that is not gated will have to be gated in order to keep the quiet zone
(EC) In the future as the risk threshold lowers if we have accidents or we don’t, people put in gates around the country that lowers the national risk threshold as that happens we have to recalculate our quiet zone. We are very close now to even having it I think the last time we ran it we were under 1,000, which is not much.
(TH) We would have to gate by Karen's Book Barn and Jericho Rd too. (EC) Yes, we would have to gate that yes
(KW) You talk about getting the facts, they have already said they would come out and have a public comment one that is not just you, and we don’t have to just take your word for it, let's bring them out to LaGrange. Table this resolution tonight and bring them out here for the next meeting or the meeting after that; so they can answer our questions and we can get it straight from the horses mouth not the other end.
(EC) I’m sorry but I would like to comment on that, they did state that every day that we loose is a day that’s lost in them being able to succeed in putting up the gates.
(KW) Well we have lost six years cause the city has done nothing; six years we have been sitting here. We have known about this since 2003, you have known about it since 2003 and you don’t seem to get into a hurry until now when it's a deadline and now you are making everybody else feel threatened that we have to do one or the other. When this is not an issue, this should have been taken care of a long time ago. You said you were waiting on a grant the grant didn’t come through a couple of years ago. What did you do then, we should have been talking about it. We should have went into emergency mode 2 or 3 years ago when the grant you were waiting for fell through. That’s when we should have been having this meeting and say oh crap what do we do now instead of now 9 months before hand. Now we are saying oh crap what do we do.
(EC) We were above the national risk threshold at that time
(KW) Mayor that is not true and you know that when they did this study right here showing what streets had to have what done to them. You have known this since 2003 2004 whenever this study was done. And you have done nothing until now
(EC) This is not true
(KW) It is true it is the fact.
(EC) October Mr. Drake came in and said nothing about it he mentioned it in March
(KW) Mayor how many times were they here last year and met with you and Darleen? And we still have done nothing.
(TC) I don’t disagree...inaudible…I am not a voter I am a taxpayer. Please show effort if we show effort we have one more ace in the hole that we can't talk about that is the politic side of things. But right now in speaking with every politician that I have spoken to from above the line. They say you all haven’t done a darn thing. Its not true that we have not done a darn thing, we have done some things and we have had some mismanagement lets not get into this he said she said whatever. If you don’t vote to do something tonight you limit the chance of us achieving. I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water I don’t want to do that. The quiet zone is the most important point of this whole thing please keep the quiet zone. But please try to keep the quiet zone with gates, that’s all I'm asking, that’s all any of us are asking. I think that’s all we are saying. We understand the risk that we are going to take but if we are going to be able to diminish those risks by using that same equipment at another location then it hasn’t been a wasted risk….inaudible… what’s the cost what’s the risk.
(EC) Any one else want to make a comment
(JT) Inaudible
(JK) Inaudible why can't we table it
(EC) Everyday that you wait is a day lost, If that is what you all decide we can do that but I also sure to waste another month or two to get them here They have schedules and they are in FL
(JK) We can try
(EC) Yes Mr. Taylor
(JT) Thank you and thanks to everyone being here. There are a lot of people with strong feeling about this and there is a lot of people in the audience that have served in some compactly and some that are still serving. County government we are in a tough position, we have to make tough discussions, and that’s why we are elected and paid to do that. With regard to the Second Street issue, according to Mr. Staten e-mail there are certain steps that must be completed to install gates at Second Street. Prior to preliminary engineering must be done to design the system. A construction agreement must be developed and signed by all parties prior to scheduling of construction. Any signal work must be accomplished by CSX, signal forces as we spoke this is a National Labor agreement and cannot be performed outside contractors normal time frame is 18-24 months from start to finish. We discussed while there is a chance the new warning system could be installed at Second Street, CSX cannot firmly commit to the City of LaGrange the June 3rd 2010 deadline for installation of the gates at Second Street. And this is the key point, they cannot guarantee this, they cannot firmly commit to this, this is something that should have been done 6 years ago, the ball was dropped, we are in a position now that if we pass this resolution 8-2009 we are going to be spending a lot of money and there is a high likelihood that this money will be used for gates that will never be used on Second Street and here we are putting the quiet zone at risk in doing that. The second thing I know that we have installed median separators and I'm not gonna jump on that too much
(EC) That’s not to be discussed this is about the gates at Second
(JT) Well its part of this resolution numbered 5 that we have installed the median separators on First Street. I am just making the point that these are not consistent with resolution 6-2009 these quick curb things are ugly they distract from our Main Street certainly they meet the classification as to the purpose, they are not the concrete barriers specified size under resolution 6-2009 that should have been in place.
(EC) We have this on our agenda and this is the only thing that can be discussed at this agenda. I am sorry I will have to call you down
(JT) Yes I am speaking of something that is on the resolution that is on the agenda and that’s all I'm gonna say about it. I just wanted to bring that up. That it was done without the council approval and it was not consistent with our prior resolution. Nonetheless, we are in a tough situation. Again, I appreciate every body being here. And I appreciate everybody's input.
(EC) I would also like to add that there is more to that e-mail
We will do everything to move the project along, but preliminary engineering and other items are outside the scope of our control as contractors do some of this work. (For clarification, this is engineering work only, not signal work mentioned labor agreement. Work may be impeded be a major disaster that would potentially require signal forces to be pulled to work in another location (i.e. hurricane or other major disaster)
We also discussed the current resolution by the City Council that will need to be addressed. In other words, they need this resolution before they will do the engineering or start on anything. Any other comments.
(JK) I firmly believe that we should see how long it will take to get a meeting with these people. Who supposedly are telling us what to do? It sounds so wishy-washy. This one says this and that one says that
(TH) Mayor it might cost the city a little bit of money but would it be improper to go ahead and start the engineering part of it. Then get your people here together and have your meeting.
(EC) That would be fine but we would have to have the resolution in order to start that; that says we want to put gates at Second Street. The resolution that they have now says that they want to put gates at Second Street or close the street. He said that with that resolution before him he cannot pick and choose. He has to have a resolution that says we want to gate it...inaudible…
(TH) Then we have to wait for the study anyway
(EC) They will not start without the resolution and the check but we could do that yes.
(?) Can you read that resolution that you guys …inaudible…I think it says it allows the Mayor to continue to work to having the gates installed?
(Room chatter while looking for resolution)
(GW) Where as the FRA has published new rail safety guidelines on December 18, 2003 that dictate quiet zone regulations and whereas these guidelines require that a locomotive horn be sounded at public highway-rail crossings, but provides several exceptions to that requirements. Whereas local public authorities may establish, or request the approval of quiet zones in which train horns may not be routinely sounded, and Whereas The City of LaGrange has established Pre-Rule Quiet Zone status to preserve the public health, safety and welfare of its citizens would like to maintain its Pre-Rule Quiet Zone status and Whereas The City of LaGrange has implemented safety measures at several crossings and has closed others that are located with this quiet zone and recognize that to continue our status as a pre-rule quiet zone would need to further implement additional safety measures Now therefore be it resolved that the city council wishes to close the railroad crossing located at Second and Main Street on November 1, 2009, if by November 1, 2009 there is no written proof that crossing gates have been purchased and are guaranteed to be installed and working before 90 days before the deadline of June 3rd 2010. Further, through mutual assistance with Kentucky Department of Transportation will install median separators of the required distance and size on KY Highway 53, known locally as First Street at the intersection of Main Street. This Resolution been duly voted on and passed on July 6, 2009 by the members of the LaGrange City Council
(JK) I still think that we should have the people come. I am tired of seeing things that this one wrote and that one wrote, and who did this and who did that. I want them sitting right here telling me. And if they can’t be sitting there then we will have the telephone where they can talk
(?) Is there any one from Louisville that’s been talking to us from CSX.
(MW) I talked to Cliff S. and Brian G. today.
(?) Is there any way they can come Tuesday
(MW) I have no idea I didn’t think they where prepared too I hadn’t asked them to and I don’t know it the Mayor has asked them too
(JK) We need somebody in here.
(JT) I just don’t like the language of that last resolution. But if we had some kind of guaranteed that, they can get this done. I don’t think that anybody here is gonna be in disagreement and we could all just go on happy and get this thing done
(EC) There's no guarantee that I won't get hit in the middle of the street when I walk out of here. Life does not have guarantees like that. Is there any other discussion among the city council?
(JD) Mayor I guess I am the only one on city council that does not live in the quiet zone. I agree very much for the quiet zone. Because the horn blows right in front of my house, that’s where it starts, and I have got used to it. I’m not saying that I want to get rid of the quiet zone, you know I lived in the quiet zone for years, I mean years. And I’m outside the quiet zone. The quiet zone ends at Sixth Street. And when they are going on Kentucky Ave. the horn starts blowing right in front of my house for the crossing up at the other end. It depends on who the engineer is as to how many times it blows. But I have been there 3 years and now it doesn’t bother me believe me. But it's all together different downtown I will agree with that, and I will do anything to keep the quiet zone. I am still a little confused about this resolution vs. the resolution we had. I have not heard anybody say that if we do this resolution that we still can't close it in November.
(EC) Of course, you can
(JD) That’s the bottom line; this has been on of the most controversial things in my place of employment of anything that has come across this city council in going on the 15 years that I have been on here. As far as people coming into Kroger where I work and calling me from out back and making their comments. Do what ever you can do to keep Second Street open. And they wanted to be at the meeting tonight but if they would, we would have had to have this meeting somewhere else. Because this room wouldn’t hold the people. So if there is any way possible to go ahead and try this and if yall can say that if it doesn’t work by June the 3rd /June 2nd, then close the sucker you know it. But I just can't sit here and say close it and don’t do nothing wait just til it happens and close it. I can't see it seems like we are just sitting back and doing nothing like we have heard that we have been doing nothing since 2003. I don’t know
(WN) There wasn’t anybody here on this council in 2003 except us.
(JD) What was the comment about the traffic going across Second Street? I didn’t think that the threshold calculator worked on traffic I thought it worked on the accidents.
(EC) That is a part of it.
…..City Council mumbles….
(JD) The other thing I think Tom Drake said that we could use Yeager. Iron man was just one reason that you don’t want all that traffic going down Yeager. Especially down around that curve where the apartments are now. People that drove Yeager as narrow as it is all your doing is asking for trouble if you send all those people from Second Street to come up Sixth Street and use Yeager and go down around Yeager. That would be a drivers nightmare that would be my nightmare, because I use Yeager and I had to stop for people coming around that curve. I know that is unusually but it won't be unusual if they can't use Second Street. So that’s my comments. Thank you
(JK) Well I live off of Yeager I live on Jane Street and I have lived there for 37 years and I have never seen all that many traffic on Yeager, and I am talking about this time period right now I never had to wait over 5 seconds or 10 second to get out on Yeager. Never have I ever had to. I would not care about this I mean I would care about it I don’t mean it that way, but the people who have been talking to me is the people on Main Street because it is so important to them. You think you won’t hear the train if it goes all through Main Street everybody will hear the train. Everybody not just the one that have businesses up there and they feel that it's gonna ruin them. Cause who wants to come up there on Main Street as many trains as we got going through there blowing their horn every time they come through. I know I don’t want it either. Melanie has spent so many hours you would not believe you have to listen to her cause she really does know what’s going on. She does and I am not willing to vote for this unless she gets in contact with those people that they will meet and sit right there in front of us and tell us and if they can't meet than we can have a phone, talk on the phone conference call you all can be here or whatever. I am tired of hearing this one said this and that one said this and this one saying that. I haven’t talked to those people. I was on that committee however long ago it was, and I dropped out because no one ever listened to anything I said so I didn’t’ go any more but the person that was the biggest part of that is no longer on. I know there were some of us here Wallace, but the biggest part of us didn’t have anything to do with CSX.
(WN) You just said you dropped out
(JK) I did because they would not listen to anything I said. I went to two meetings Wallace, that might be funny to you but it wasn’t funny to me.
(WN) I find it funny cause I come up to city hall for several months for meetings that the city council members don’t show up to meet me. That works two ways.
(EC) I think at this time I would like to say is there a motion to be made on Resolution 8-2009 for safety gates at Second Street and we will take a vote on this. Then proceed however, you all would care to; if it’s someone here to talk to you or whatever.
(JD) Mayor I make a motion that we accept this resolution 8-2009
(EC) Very good, there is a motion been made and a second to accept resolution 8-2009 (second Wally Nay) a resolution for safety gates at Second Street and we will do a roll call vote
Hall - NO
Davenport - YES
Goldsmith - NO
Nay - YES
Taylor - NO
Knight - NO
Woosley - NO
Pollard - NO
(EC) If there is nothing else on our agenda, we are adjourned
Elsie B. Carter, Mayor
ATTEST:
Stephanie R. Cooper, City Clerk